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	<title>Comments on: What is old is new: absurd reactions to the origins of HIV</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/2008/10/11/what-is-old-is-new-absurd-reactions-to-the-origins-of-hiv/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/2008/10/11/what-is-old-is-new-absurd-reactions-to-the-origins-of-hiv/</link>
	<description>Of sex and science. Elizabeth Pisani's blog about HIV and other sundry things.</description>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/2008/10/11/what-is-old-is-new-absurd-reactions-to-the-origins-of-hiv/comment-page-1/#comment-1776</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/?p=1071#comment-1776</guid>
		<description>Have you read the fascinating book &quot;The River: A journey to the Source of HIV/AIDS&quot; by Edward Hooper?  The author eventually hypothesizes that an infected specific lot of polio vaccine may have transferred HIV from primates to humans. He was unable to either validate or invalidate this hypothesis, as a sample of that lot is held by the Wistar Institute, and it was not released for testing for the presence of HIV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you read the fascinating book &#8220;The River: A journey to the Source of HIV/AIDS&#8221; by Edward Hooper?  The author eventually hypothesizes that an infected specific lot of polio vaccine may have transferred HIV from primates to humans. He was unable to either validate or invalidate this hypothesis, as a sample of that lot is held by the Wistar Institute, and it was not released for testing for the presence of HIV.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/2008/10/11/what-is-old-is-new-absurd-reactions-to-the-origins-of-hiv/comment-page-1/#comment-1735</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/?p=1071#comment-1735</guid>
		<description>As part of the generation taught that AIDS is a brand-new, mysterious super-disease, this information is incredibly fascinating to me. Though honestly I never spent much time thinking about its African origins as a ractist statement. Supposedly all life started there, why not disease too? 

Thanks Elizabeth, for this look into history of a major killer. Academic interest, maybe. Learning about the factors of the spread of disease IS interesting to me.

XX</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As part of the generation taught that AIDS is a brand-new, mysterious super-disease, this information is incredibly fascinating to me. Though honestly I never spent much time thinking about its African origins as a ractist statement. Supposedly all life started there, why not disease too? </p>
<p>Thanks Elizabeth, for this look into history of a major killer. Academic interest, maybe. Learning about the factors of the spread of disease IS interesting to me.</p>
<p>XX</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/2008/10/11/what-is-old-is-new-absurd-reactions-to-the-origins-of-hiv/comment-page-1/#comment-1730</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/?p=1071#comment-1730</guid>
		<description>Kevin,

Further to Michael&#039;s comments, the point is that you don&#039;t have to have sex or share needles with a monkey for your bodily fluids to come into contact with theirs.  Killing an infected simian (whether ape or monkey), slaughtering one, or even being bitten by one could all do that as well.

Roger,

The mainstream theory is that it was the formation of cities in the colonial era that allowed HIV to spread.  Previously, if someone in a relatively isolated community, such as a group of pygmies in the foothills of the Rwenzori or on the banks of the Zaire, were to be infected, the disease wouldn&#039;t have much chance of spreading beyond them and their immediate contacts, and would eventually die out.  In latter days, cities, roads and the huge displacement of people that followed from colonialisation allowed the disease to spread into much larger communities.  We even have two different types of HIV that are believed to have crossed at two different times from different ancestral simian viruses - HIV-1 and HIV-2.  Of course, I would agree that the interest is largely academic; but many of the alternative theories are used to block vital medical interventions.  (For instance, the polio vaccine theory has led to many people refusing vaccinations, mortality from vaccine-preventable diseases, and is a key factor in the stalling of the Polio Eradication effort in Africa).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,</p>
<p>Further to Michael&#8217;s comments, the point is that you don&#8217;t have to have sex or share needles with a monkey for your bodily fluids to come into contact with theirs.  Killing an infected simian (whether ape or monkey), slaughtering one, or even being bitten by one could all do that as well.</p>
<p>Roger,</p>
<p>The mainstream theory is that it was the formation of cities in the colonial era that allowed HIV to spread.  Previously, if someone in a relatively isolated community, such as a group of pygmies in the foothills of the Rwenzori or on the banks of the Zaire, were to be infected, the disease wouldn&#8217;t have much chance of spreading beyond them and their immediate contacts, and would eventually die out.  In latter days, cities, roads and the huge displacement of people that followed from colonialisation allowed the disease to spread into much larger communities.  We even have two different types of HIV that are believed to have crossed at two different times from different ancestral simian viruses &#8211; HIV-1 and HIV-2.  Of course, I would agree that the interest is largely academic; but many of the alternative theories are used to block vital medical interventions.  (For instance, the polio vaccine theory has led to many people refusing vaccinations, mortality from vaccine-preventable diseases, and is a key factor in the stalling of the Polio Eradication effort in Africa).</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/2008/10/11/what-is-old-is-new-absurd-reactions-to-the-origins-of-hiv/comment-page-1/#comment-1710</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 10:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/?p=1071#comment-1710</guid>
		<description>There is only one problem with the horizontal cross species transmission: Pygmies in central Africa have been killing and eating chimp that can be infected with a close relative of HIV for 5000 years and still do so and there has never been anything reported that would looks like AIDS until very recently. Beside, HIV prevalence in Pygmy community is very low, unless they are in contact with Town people.

It may be that cross species contamination has occured and was followed by genetic changes leading to HIV, but that has yet to be proved. We might never know how it happened, and I am not sure it matters beyond the acadmic interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is only one problem with the horizontal cross species transmission: Pygmies in central Africa have been killing and eating chimp that can be infected with a close relative of HIV for 5000 years and still do so and there has never been anything reported that would looks like AIDS until very recently. Beside, HIV prevalence in Pygmy community is very low, unless they are in contact with Town people.</p>
<p>It may be that cross species contamination has occured and was followed by genetic changes leading to HIV, but that has yet to be proved. We might never know how it happened, and I am not sure it matters beyond the acadmic interest.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/2008/10/11/what-is-old-is-new-absurd-reactions-to-the-origins-of-hiv/comment-page-1/#comment-1692</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/?p=1071#comment-1692</guid>
		<description>Even today, monkeys are a major source of protein for under-nourished people in the Congo region. It&#039;s an activity which gets the hunter (who is quite likely to have a sore festering, or some kind of untreated wound) more or less covered in blood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even today, monkeys are a major source of protein for under-nourished people in the Congo region. It&#8217;s an activity which gets the hunter (who is quite likely to have a sore festering, or some kind of untreated wound) more or less covered in blood.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/2008/10/11/what-is-old-is-new-absurd-reactions-to-the-origins-of-hiv/comment-page-1/#comment-1689</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/?p=1071#comment-1689</guid>
		<description>The way by which the virus crossed from simian to human is still unexplained, but after it did, the way (or at least  one) it developped into a killer disease for human can be found in &quot;The River&quot;, a book that interestingly challenged the fact that HIV causes AIDS. For the author of the River (whose name I have forgotten) it was the vaccination campaign in Africa that created AIDS. He was not completely wrong... as vaccination campaign when done with a single needle used to inject hundred of people provide a perfect way to infect and reinfect a population...

Another way is the rapid development or towns during the colonisation process that brough together a large number of people who whilst sexually mixing together provided a highway for HIV development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way by which the virus crossed from simian to human is still unexplained, but after it did, the way (or at least  one) it developped into a killer disease for human can be found in &#8220;The River&#8221;, a book that interestingly challenged the fact that HIV causes AIDS. For the author of the River (whose name I have forgotten) it was the vaccination campaign in Africa that created AIDS. He was not completely wrong&#8230; as vaccination campaign when done with a single needle used to inject hundred of people provide a perfect way to infect and reinfect a population&#8230;</p>
<p>Another way is the rapid development or towns during the colonisation process that brough together a large number of people who whilst sexually mixing together provided a highway for HIV development.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/2008/10/11/what-is-old-is-new-absurd-reactions-to-the-origins-of-hiv/comment-page-1/#comment-1688</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 09:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wisdomofwhores.com/?p=1071#comment-1688</guid>
		<description>&quot;allowed the virus to cross from simians to humans&quot;
Well I am curious, how precisely did it cross from simians to humans?  Presumably as it wouldn&#039;t be needle sharing it has to be sex, but this presents problems as due to the different distribution of muscle fibre types in simians and humans apes are far stronger than us (by 3 or 4 times) humans are built for stamina, apes for short intense activity - even a group of men holding down a chimp to rape it would be a challenge, especially in view of those long nasty canine teeth!
The only option I can think of that seems remotely feasible is to shoot the ape then indulge with the dead body, but am I missing something or did the Belgians really leave a trail of dead abused chimps across the Congo?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;allowed the virus to cross from simians to humans&#8221;<br />
Well I am curious, how precisely did it cross from simians to humans?  Presumably as it wouldn&#8217;t be needle sharing it has to be sex, but this presents problems as due to the different distribution of muscle fibre types in simians and humans apes are far stronger than us (by 3 or 4 times) humans are built for stamina, apes for short intense activity &#8211; even a group of men holding down a chimp to rape it would be a challenge, especially in view of those long nasty canine teeth!<br />
The only option I can think of that seems remotely feasible is to shoot the ape then indulge with the dead body, but am I missing something or did the Belgians really leave a trail of dead abused chimps across the Congo?</p>
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